Corrusader's rant

[Corrusader]

With another issue out, another rant is due. I will again comment on the articles that is deemed worthy. This time, I hope to organize it better, optimized for ease of reading and consciness. (This would go to show if writing courses in Engineering taught me anything.)

Right, before I start. Good job guys (all that's involved in the magazine) for another issue. It is somewhat improved from the first issue to which I DON'T take any credit for (there ya go Genna.) It feels like there is more content, and the printing quality has certainly improved. It's not easy to come up with those magazines so congratulations to all of you guys.

So. This time around, I decided to go backwards in my comments, starting with the last story of the book. Remember, this is only my personal opinion, take it with heaps of salt.

Eternal Night

What I don't like:

1. The background setting frames 1-2 are confusing. The second frame could be a walkway, a conveyer belt, or a roller coaster track. It is only after much analysing that I decided it's a tall building. The "WAN" in the first frame didn't ring any bells, nor is it followed up. Makes me wonder why it's there.
2. I can't recognise the people immediately as "lawyers," nor can I make the connection why he can't meet lawyers.
3. By "taking the long way up" I assumed he meant "be stealthy" which possibly involve wall scaling or cieling crawling or something. I fail to see what's so special about taking an elevator to the top floor.
4. 9:20 pm is an unusual time for a lecture when the office hours of the prof are during the day. But that is minor as this bit of detail might be explained later in the story.
5. The stick that clicks is a strange contraption. You click it and something rose to the top of some other thing. You click it again and....? (page 8, 9 totally confused me.)
6. The close-ups on the eye on page 12, 13 are confusing because it is not obvious whose eyes are those.
7. Creig did not get enough of an introduction. I forgot his existence and confused him with the werewolf the first time through.
8. What weapon is that ribbon/whip thing on page 14?
9. Who's Lillian?
10. I think you introduced too many characters without enough introduction/exposure to each one of them. Combined with the sometimes similar character design, it is not easy to remember those characters.
11. I think there is too much plot, too fast. You may need more time for the plot to sink in. You might want to try concentrating on one aspect of the world/character interactions. Fully explain one goal/inccident, what the characters did about the event, and how the event concluded before moving on.

I realize this is probably just an attention grabber and you intend the plot to come later. However, with the long lag between episodes, readers may experience prolonged confusion and frustration, which can be counter-productive.


What I liked:

1. The meeting of the main character (forgot his name) and Scott has a clicheish, but still entertaining atmosphere.
2. The lecture scene is what I liked best about this episode. I know that the professor (forgot his name) is somewhat shady, and "Ms Winters" clearly didn't know that yet. His expressions of calmness is especially great. It is as tho he is quitely amused by the student's surprise. It is clear he is a character with a lot of confidence. The entire scene is just quite entertaining and amusing.

I must say I enjoyed the first episode slightly better, but I am glad that you put in the time and effort to make this episode. Another little thing I noticed is that there are quite a few cliches in this episode: The scott waiting scene, the main character asking a question when teacher asks "are there any questions?" , and the falling scene in the end. I am often against cliches, but maybe others don't mind it.

[Pocket]

Why don't you send PMs to the individual artists instead of making these threads?

[Corrusader]

I post them in threads because I want feedback on my opinions. I want to see if other people agree or disagree. I want to generate a sort of discussion on the story, both for me and for the author. I do not want only my opinion to be heard, for I certainly make no effort to represent the entire reader section. If I pm my opinion to the authors, I fear that opinion is the only they're going to hear. I don't know how much feedback each author is getting, or how much they want to hear. However, I do notice that no other post exist to talk about any aspect of the second issue yet.

You do have your point tho Pocket. I recognize that some authors don't want to discuss their work in public, some don't want to discuss them at all. I will respect that. You have all seen what my comments are like, you should have right to decide whether you want to hear me or not. So if you want me to post about your work here, make it known, and I shall. I am not going to do any pm'ing because there just isn't enough stimulation for me.

Wayward, I'll write about your work here, as you have shown interest in my opinion. If that is not what you wish, make it known as well.

[Bryan]

ooooh... another digest from Corrusader... i was afraid that we weren't gonna get any this time... but it's good...

anyway... on to ur questions... i noticed that some of them can be answered by goin back to chapter 1... and others r due to my likeness for subtlety... which i guess u do not like... so here we go....

1. as u know i do half pages w/ 1 page containing 2 comic pages... so.. the first frame that u mentioned is actually not a frame but part of the cover page... w/ the title wanted... the "wan" was actually the 1st part of the word wanted... as in a close up shot of a wanted poster... i know it's badly done but that's all i can come up w/ at that time... so i appologize...
and u r right the next frame is of a tall build... as u may noticed now i'm bad at drawin buildings... and is something that i tryin to improve on...

2. they r lawyers b/c they r wearing suits... XD i know so very little connection there, they can very well be business pple... i just didn't think that was an important detail and just neglected it... and it's not b/c he can't meet lawyers but b/c 1 he hates them, (explained waaaaay later), 2 now he has witnesses around... to wat u say? on to ur next question...

3. as u may remember in the 1st chapter he is able to fly up onto the buildin tops which is wat he prefers doin when he has to goto the roof top, and it is simple and fast... but now w/ pple and lawyers around... he can't do that, so he has to take the elevator like everyone else, and wait for the elevator like everyone and all that hassle, so he considers that as a long way...

4. meh... i had a course that started at 9pm... isn't so strange to me...

5. that stick thing is kinda like a memo storage thing... mini comp. if u will... so 1st click makes it unfold... and brings up a flexible screen... and makes it into a sqare... which is wat cain is hold at the bottom of the page.. and by continuously clickin the button it brings up different pages of the memo... i'm not sure if u got the last frame of page 9.. but it's supposed to be the picture of pierre lestraute... ( yeeeeaaah.... um... now i look at it i can c where u got confused... it was clear in my head when i drew it... but i guess it didn't convey the way i wanted it to... )

6. the eyes were bad... i was gonna take them out...but didn't have time to do that...

7. creig is supposed to remain shadowy... he's the strong silent type... ;D

8. weapons will be explained in later chapters.. but it's kinda like a metallic whip... the thing on his left arm contains liquid metal and can be controled by him and be molded into different things...

9. lillian is the first name of ms. winters... it was mentioned in the 1st chapter...

10. so far there's only 5 characters introduced... and i don't know... shows like gundam introduces far more characters in their 1st episode w/o really explain who they r or wat their roles will be...

11. as for plot... i think i've hardly begun... i've only just gave a tiny peek to the main conflict in the 2nd chapter....

anyway... i hope that helps... and i know my last 2 answers were quite arrogant sounding but i didn't mean it that way... so plz don't take it that way... as for cliches... meh... they can be good and they can be bad... but just as a warnin.. there will be many cliches comin up... ;D.... well i hope u enjoyed eternal night so far and will continue to read it and give ur opinions... which i do enjoy reading... and i will continue to try and make the comic better... any any more questions or comments plz do post...

[Corrusader]

With regards to subtlety

Actually, I'm all for subtleties. Subtleties I think is one of the things that gives me the most amount of enjoyment if I notice them. But if I can't get something after reasonable effort, it frustrates me. I guess it's a hard thing to balance, this subtlety; make it too subtle and no one will get it, make it too easy and it won't be subtle.

With regards to reference to episode 1

If I were to open issue one and refresh my memory on the story I'm sure some confusing parts will be explained. At least I would know the characters better. The reason I didn't do that is only partially due to laziness.

I try to do what any reader would to give you a opinion closer to general public. If a reader read a comic and don't understand reference to previous events, it's not likely that they would go open another book just to find out. Especially if that other book is not handy (at school, thrown away, ect.)

I think the author should remind his/her reader what happened previously, subtly if possible, but any reminder is better then none. I think you should repeat what you want your readers to remember more often. Names, and other important details to a lesser extent. Just think of how many times Naruto's name is called in one episode.

Responding to 3

This is an example to where I could use a reminder. If I remembered he can fly, I might be able to induce what "the long way" might mean.

8

See I thought that whip is the ray gun Scott used (remember I confused Scott with Creig,) I thought it's a fast-motion frame where the ray lagged long enough to create a spinny effect.

10

That might explain why I hate Gundam Wings. A real explaination would take too long. I saw one episode, got frustrated, and left. However, I do remember some characters because they stand out, not by name but by appearance. The Chinese guy, the blond guy that talks like a girl, the Japanese guy with the "typical main character" look, the blond girl that does nothing.

Maybe you should have some physical feature/dressing/character that I can recognize the characters by, and remind me more often. I don't recall the main character's name being said once in the second episode.

10

Just a concern here. If the story is so long, I doubt we will see it's end, or even get close. We're not through the introction and six months has passed. How long do you plan to do this story for? If it's not likely you'll continue after university, it's not likely you'll get it done.

Now I'm not saying you don't draw enough, or the magazine should be out more often or anything like that. I'm just stating a reasonable speculation. If you want to change the pace or not it's up to you.

... and thank YOU for replying. This is a post for you to read, and you reading it, makes my time worthwhile.

[Bryan]

i agree, subtlety takes an art... and often i assume either pple know wat i was thinkin, or that they r more observant than they really r... so i often make things too subtle to make sense...

a review on a previous chapter is always good... and it is often done in animes... however it is almost impossible here, as the number of pages i'm allowed to have is limited... speakin of which... b/c of the page limit, i was actually forced to split the original chapter 1 into 2 chapters... which might explain y that it's better to have read chapter 1 and 2 togather at the same time...

as for defining character features... i believe that i've made a good effort there... there's pierre lestraute, the mysterious vampire w/ the black long hair that hides half of his face along w/ dark secrets... lillian winters, the only female character that has been introduced... the pair of werewolves, scott klein, w/ his air of arrogance and machoness, and creig being the strong silent type, and marked by the hulkin metallic machinery on his right arm... and finally there's the ever so anti social cain adams w/ his white trench that serves as a poor disguise in the night...

as for the story bein overly long... i plan it to be the length of one season of an anime... which will be longer than the time i stay at u of t... u might not think it, but i will actually continue the story after i leave... it might not be printed on the magazine any more... but it'll all work out, i assure u that none of the readers will miss the endin... it's too good to be missed...

[Corrusader]

... and that concludes the discussion on Eternal Nights on this thread as I have no more to say. I was a little disappointed on how no one joined in, but all is well. I want to thank Bryan for his replies to clear things up, and his willingness to hear me out. I have brought to his attention all the things I deemed nessary, and that marks a good time to move on to another story.

Will and Consequences

Being honest, I must say when I first started reading the story, I hated it. I was thinking "not another stupid social drama/love story." I started skimming paragraphs after the first page thinking "stop talking already," until I read "...of old death and rotten blood." I was shocked with glee. (I'm not a fan of stories that bear close resemblance to reality in general. If I want to experience reality, I'll actually go out and just do it myself.) As I read on, the story got better and better, to a point of greatness. The story itself was mediocre, but the description of the environment is great, and how the subtleties worked to reveal hidden plot as well as expressed character is just amazing.

Of course, my high opinion on this are contributed by a bunch of variables that may or may not have been intentional.

1. The begining of the story had such a different tone that by itself is despisable. That made a huge contrast with the later parts of the story, which inflated my opinion.

2. The piece is so far above the other stories in the issue (Corrusader's opinion) that the contrast further inflated my opinion.

3. A major theme of the piece, blood and pain, is something I like. That inflated my opinion a considerabel amount.

Subtleties in plot

I found quite a few subtle things in this work. Some of them being rather far fetched, I want to see if it's what you intend.

1. Victor made the train accident.
2. Helen knows Victor killed her lover.
3. The servent is actually Will.
4. The unknown hand is fate.
5. Helen's knowledge of Victor's crime is revealed to her by the servent.

Possible plot hole

I always thought to summon the servent Victor stick the blade in the circle of summoning and leave it there. But in the end, after the servent came out, he "dropped his old blade and gaped in disbelief." When did he take the sword back?

Things I don't like

1. I don't like the manga person at the front of the story. I have always been apalled at books with manga covers. It cheapens the book, it is as if the author of the literature wanted to ride some of the manga success, when his work has no connection to mangas at all.

2. The rose in the background is an idea I don't like. It serves to only distract me from the story. The rectangular edge of the art only shows the lack of effort to blur it out or something.

3. The Water Gallery should not be placed in the middle of the story. I was reading about Helen, about her intoxicant scent and infectious laughter... and Water Gallery. If a reader have enough attention span to finish the story, they'd do it without the Gallery. If they don't, they skip the text anyways.

4. The idea of "killed by his demonic dealings" has been done a million times. However this is made less of a problem when Victor is techniquely not killed by his servent. The servent tried to prevent him from doing the thing that would result in his dismise. The originality of servent's character worked to save the cliche.

5. What's Cosyne's purpose in this story? In the begining he looked like he's the main character. But that just didn't happen. A loose end is the mentioning to "the person who had always waited outside his room." But then again, that could have been part of the twist.

What I particularily liked

1. The description of the basement is just great. Not only did you describe the scene well, but also the mood and nightmarish atmosphere. How dark it is, and what it smelled like. That is one of my favourate paragraphs in the story.

2. The way Helen answered Victor's questions in the restaurant. How unenthusiastic she was. So clashing against Victor's description of her. The reader immediately know something is wrong. Victor's inner comments during that phase seemed too revealing tho. He's reminding me that something is wrong, as if I can't decipher Helen's reactions by myself.

3. The servent explaining about choice and will. It got a rhythem to it.

4. The names. What does Cosyne and Helen mean?

5. The projector displaying Victor's future. The progression of time mixed with undying happiness shown through all those events are just perfect. Were I Victor, I'd just live in that projector until the end of my time.

6. All the hidden plot, which is a lot. It's like reading a story twice as long in half the words. Reading a story again and again (3 times) and discovering new things each time is a great feeling.

That's the end. I must say a job well done. The story makes a very good read. I'd say it itself makes the magazine worth while. You have a way with words.

[Advent Childhe]

Greetings:

It is late and I must retire soon.

I will be quite honest with you; I was expecting the usual bash from Corrusader for my peice.

No I lied.

I was hoping that Corrusader would bash my piece, because I've no good ideas for the second one yet.

After reading your comments, Corrusader, I felt an elation that I thought I could never feel again. To be so highly praised by one that has such a critical eye fro every detail in everything that he has a care for... that is honour enough.

As to your questions, I will disscuss them on a differen day.

Words cannot describe the joy that I feel from knowning that my words are being read. As such, I'll speak no more on it.

Yours in great appreciation and sincerety,
Wayward,

[Velata]

... May I...?

They say, "ask and thou shalt receive". May I, then, ask for a commentary from Corrusader's critical eye?

Some may call this masochism, I'd like to call it getting feedbacks. After all, after corresponding with Corrusader on and off in this specific section of the forum, I do believe that Corrusader is entitled to speak up against/for(?) what I have put forward for the general populace.

Besides, if I am not mistaken, I should be the next one in line, isn't it?

Awaiting your replies,

[Corrusader]

Velata, masochism is too heavy a word. Torture is not my intent as in here you won't find mocking words nor sarcastic comments. I merely put forth my opinion more strongly then some may prefer. And yes, of course I will be glad to tell you what I think of your work after Wayward has heard from me all he wants to hear.

Wayward, the praise is not ill-deserved. I try to be honest here, because I feel the authors deserve to know what I truely feel about their work. Perhaps writing a story is easier then drawing a manga; Perhaps it's easier to impress with words then with musical talent. Never the less I was impressed, and I am willing to tell you that.

My preference does not always include rational things like effort or difficulty. It does not always consider age or background. I do not need an explaination to convince me of my opinions. However I do try and attatch a reason behind my preferences in attempt to explain to you why I feel that way. These reasons are not always appropriate, that's why I so often change my mind. That is also why I urge you not to take my opinion too heavily.

[Advent Childhe]

Greetings:

This is a late relpy for Corrusader's opinion on my piece.

Firstly, I would like to thank Corrusader for his praise

On the possible plot hole.... Well, it is a plot hole. I forgot to write that he took the blade out.

On the subtleties....Well, I purposely wrote these parts of the story ambiguously, this way, the readers can keep guessing. Though there is one point where I put a slight bit more emphasis, this is where the Servant said that he can't bend will as easily as he can bend train tracks. Also, the victim list from the accident listed 66 people exactly. As to the rest of the other points, Corrusader is not the only one that shares them, my friend Robert Rose has also asked me the exact same question. There is no answer. It happend. There it is. Though the Servant of the Unknown Hand is not William.

About Cosyne...Well, Cosyne is an acquaintence of Victor, Will, and Helen. His conversation in the boring part of the story, as Corrusader would say, serves to bring the back ground of the story to light. Apart from that, Cosyne plays no particular part in the plot. However, Cosyne represents something else in a more moral or philosophical point of view. One thing I can say about Cosyne; he was designed to be mysterious and sullen.

About the names...Well, Cosyne and Helen were named for some other reason that had nothing to do with the underlying moral debate of the story. Victor is an ironic name. He didn't win at this game that he played, though he thought he did. William, or Will, has a much more direct meaning. Cosyne is not his real name, but everyone calls him that. Helen is a wonderful name, and if any of the reader knows of Homer's Ilead, they would know what Helen represented.

The story it self is contained, except for Cosyne. It is safe to say that we'll all see Cosyne again.

Yours,
Wayward,

[Corrusader]

Sigh. I was hoping William is the servent too. That'd be awesome; too bad he isn't
I hope when we see Cosyne again, we'd learn more about the person that waited for him outside his room.

Velata, I thank you for the interest for my opinion; Without further delay, here it is.

One Iron Mantic

Before I begin, I want to say something about my taste to which your comic suffered greatly. I do not generally enjoy anything that bears too close a resemblance to reality. However, I don't think that is anything you should be overly concerned about, nor would I change it if I were you. Just bear in mind that the opinion below is more biased towards the negative end then I usually was.

What I like

1. I really like the amount of detail that exists in your comic. It's appearant that a lot of time has gone into background, details and perspective. So much detail (thought) went into the clothing I think it deserves it's own sentence.

2. I like how you use the solid black to shade some parts. It provided excellent focus for the eye on the frames. It also gave good contrast, which is entertaining.

3. As mentioned before, I admire your character design. Different clothing with different hair makes the characters easily recognized and remembered. (By appearance at least)

4. I like how you wrote all your letters out by hand. It fits with the mood of the comic.

5. I like how you described the Whitechapel, and to a lesser extent, Jack. The language is colourful and amusing there.

What I don't like

1. Although wordy comics can, and have worked before in the past, it is difficult. I feel to be wordy, you have to be careful with your words. Being a big emphasis on your work, words need to not only convey information, but also amuse and keep interest. I refer you to "tracer bullet" from Calvin and Hobbes if you're familiar with him. That detective speaks almost twice as much as normal Calvin, who talks a lot already. He is not boring tho, he's diction, carefully chosen has a rough ring to it. His words pack a ton of character and bias.

I can say your dialogues are informative, but far from amusing.

2. The dreaming part is confusing. I looked at the first frame and I assume that it's in the street and stuff happened. The sleeping Oliver frame confused me and so I skipped it. I think it might be more perferable to show Oliver sleeping first and then employ some technique to show he's dreaming.

3. The dialogue on page 2 is confusing, as a result you numbered it. I think it's confusing because you drew the main parts of the picture too big, as a result you have to squeeze the words at obscure places #4. I would would suggest drawing the characters smaller when they're having a conversation.

4. I don't like young characters (Dodger) having eyes that slanted downwards from the nose. It describes a character as arrogant, lazy, unenergetic, and annoying. When this is used on a good guy it seemed like he's too uninitiative to be a hero. When it is used on a bad guy he seemed too steorotypical.

5. In the second last frame, the sleeping Dodger seemed unnatural. When I'm preparing to go to sleep, my face is relaxed. He's too... smiley.

6. The phrase "all-too-human" is a confusing to me. In my past, the phrase is used when some being of extronary power (cleverness) made a mistake that caused his downfall (defeat.) I don't get what's so human about a killer killing five people. Jack seemed pretty inhuman to me by your description.

Your drawing and style rated very highly on my chart. Although I can't speak so highly about your description. If this is a comic about almost anything else, it would probably have ranked among one of the highest in the magazine. Right now it's just above mediocre. That really doesn't mean anything except that it takes some extra punch to impress me. But if you do, I will be extra impressed.

[Velata]

... May I...?

I would like to exetent a sincere thanks to Corrusader for his comments on the my work in this issue. For someone who has just embarked on this often rocky road of comic/manga production, any and every comment is useful, and helpful... but these comments, not only do they help, but they also serve to build my fragile confidence. Once again, thank you kindly.

~sigh of relief~

Ther are some things that I would like to comment on:

1. The title of the work is "Oneiromantic", pronounced [O-nai-ro-man-tik]. It means - in English, no less - someone who can tell the future from his dreams. It refers back to one of the main characters, Oliver Cayce.

2. "I do not generally enjoy anything that bears too close a resemblance to reality." Is a rather confusing comment. The world of "Oneiromantic" is a parallel of the real Victorian London that the history books present. Does it still resemble the real era to the point that would elicit this comment?

3. As to your comments on the artwork in general (smiley Dodger, confusing dream sequences, inappropriate sizes, etc.), I have taken note of them, and would do my best in improve on them for the coming issue.

4. As to your insightful comment on Dodger's character design... well, the man is supposed to be "arrogant, lazy, unenergetic, and annoying". That's the way the character is set, and he is not your typical hero anyway. I am secretly glad that someone had actually picked up this detail and commented on it.

5. Better coversations... I will do my best on improving them for the next issue as well. I've found the dialogues in this issue wanting myself, but could not find a way to improve on them this time around. Hopefully, with the indulgence of Corrusader, Wayward, Tim Taw, Pocket (and anyone else who'd like to comment on it), I would be able to improve for the next issue.

6. In this alternate world of Oneiromantic, where magic is very real, and a plethora of supernatural beings haunt the dark recesses of humanity, many would suspect the entity known as "Jack the Ripper" as having a supernatural origin, or otherwise affliated with one of the many occult underground figures active in Victorian London. One of the popular theories was that "Jack" was a deranged Freemason, obsessed with the "grand work" and wished to reprouced them on earth.

However, what Dodger wanted to say was that "Jack" was in no way supernatural, and neither did he have any occult inclinations. At the end, he was just an "all-too-human" killer, not some hell-borne fiend that prowlled the streets.

7. Thank you again for your comments, however "If this is a comic about almost anything else, it would probably have ranked among one of the highest in the magazine" confused me. A comic about almost anything else? What else does Corrusader had in mind?

Once again, I sincerely appreciate your comments, and welcome more comments from the greater CP populace. If I may have my questions answered, I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks a million,

[Advent Childhe]

The Great Architect will work his wonders on this plane!

I am the intrument of the Great Architect!

The world will be shaped to His Divine Will!!

[Corrusader]

1. Clear as daylight, I don't know that word, and my ignorance shows. However not looking it up is only partially because I'm lazy. I don't look up anything unless they appear repeatedly, or they are clearly important. Not looking up words, reading previous issues, and doing my research before I form my opinions aren't meant to be disrespectful to the authors, but to reflect what "reading the work" is like for me in reality.

Well now I know what it means, it certainly clear up a lot of things, as it is intended to.

2. I'm sorry it's confusing. I'll try and explain more. Not understanding what "oneiromantic" meant I thought the story is based on Victorian London. But that's not all of it.

"Being close to reality" to me means that I can imagine myself, as I am now without any extra powers, getting into the main character's position. I can also expect what other character's reaction/powers are to an reasonable extent. A realistic time setting in my mind goes from the present, backward until the dawn of mankind. Of course, the further back you go, the less realistic it becomes.

Here, I'll try to come up with some examples. The last Samerai is semi realistic. I can imagine me travelling to Japan from England to fight for a style of living that I come to believe in. However, fighting with swords are unrealistic, as no one fights with swords nowdays.

Pride and Prejudice is realistic. I can imagine myself in the protaganist's shoes and doing all of the things she does. I can also expect the things Mr. Darcy would do given his personalities.

Finding Nemo is unrealistic for obvious reasons.

6. This is interesting. I did take the words you used to describe the Whitechapel as adjectives to portray the darker side of humanity.

7. "Anything else" refers back to my dislike of stories being too realistic, which you should disregard. The comment is meant to say "in my mind, you entertained me on every part of the comic except on the story and how it's conveyed." Having no knowledge on Jack the Reaper and Victorian London, places such as Whitechapel meant nothing more to me as a name where crimes are committed. I had more fun staring at pictures then looking into the text, try to understand all the references, and appreciate the background of the story.

If I'm not mistaken, this is a story about another story. Not knowing the other story, some of the values of this story is of course lost on me.